Welcome to the third episode of the Ink Roads podcast! Today I’m super honored to feature Lisa J. Heathfield, who writes about the intersection of finance, consciousness, and sustainable futures on Substack and on her site, happybiggirl.com.
Lisa is a certified financial planner who walked away from her career in order to focus on a new paradigm of alternative investing and sustainable, renewable financial planning, and her vision for a new world built on quantum leaps and interconnectedness with all beings is a powerful one.
We spoke about her vision for the future, and the extraordinary changes occurring at this moment. We also spoke about the fact that the progress and expansion-based economic paradigms our world runs on are failing on a mass scale, and she offered insights on how we can rewire our understanding of money and reality itself in order to enter a new and more regenerative, nurturing state of existence.
Thanks for listening/reading!
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INK ROADS: I just would love to start off by just asking if you could chat a little bit about you and where you're coming from.
LISA J. HEATHFIELD: So, I'm Lisa J. Heathfield, and I'm a certified financial planner who gave away and walked away from my practice last June. And I set out to live in experiments in quantum physics to find proof of God within my reality. Which is a very big, strange thing to do. But what had really led me to that point was, for a long time probably—it really became clear at the start of COVID—that the world has fundamentally changed so much. Our economics have changed, our landscape has changed so much. And yet, the ways that we are—that or I had been told in my profession—to invest people's money and make plans and things like that…Nothing was making sense anymore because it was all sort of built for this world that really largely doesn't exist.
The economy we have now is based on perpetual growth, but you know, we've butted up against the limits of our resources. And I just realized, maybe this has worked for the last, you know, 50 years or so, but this next coming 20 years—no. These stock market-based investments, investing in large corporations, and investing in the systems and structures of society as we see it today—these things are not sustainable and not conducive or healthy for human life.
And so I walked away from my practice just on a very sort of open-ended experiment of just saying, I'm just going to follow whatever synchronicities or opportunities appear across my path, and I'm just going to go wherever those things lead and have the experiences that I do and learn the things that I do. And I've been on a hell of a journey the last seven months and have learned a lot about just alternative ways to invest in a better future, you know, a better vision for our future and our shared reality.
IR: Absolutely. And I love that you're kind of coming from a place of dealing with the financial side, because that is what drives so much of our current reality and occupies so much of people's mental space. So I do think it's powerful that you're starting there and envisioning a different way through that space. We are approaching the end of the old system, it feels like, which hasn't worked for so many people for so long.
I'd love to hear a little bit more about your vision for the future of finances and how you're injecting your own creativity into that.
LJH: Well, I think one thing is that money is really just an expression of energy. And as we all know, energy is everything. There's very little solid matter actually in the universe. Most things are just vibration, frequency, and energy.
This is my first time out of the gate in trying to articulate these things, because a lot of this has just been tied up in my head for so long, and this is giving it form in a very public way, which is interesting but great.
It's really about thinking, and probably not as much for this particular audience—I mean, no, but for this audience too—because it's all of us. It's all of us who have money in a work-sponsored 401(k) or an IRA or any kind of investment accounts. So it’s really about thinking about, if money is my money and it is an expression of my energy, and I've got it out there invested for my future in these things that are essentially degrading the quality of life for so many, and not putting that energy—capital, money, whatever you want to call it… What if it was invested into the causes that not only create a better financial reality for the individual investor in the future, but into investments that make a better world for all?
I know that in this space there's what's considered ESG investing, which is the environmental, social, governance type of investing. But I find when you drill down into it, it's very much sort of like a marketing gimmick and it’s performative in a way because it's just basing it off of companies that are "good," but it’s not actually about getting out there looking for things that are innovative.
So a lot of my work right now is diving into the world of alternative investments and trying to understand how those things work, and how people can make investments within either smaller companies or nonprofits or initiatives within their local communities that are going to build a better and more sustainable future. I'm just working out that framework. I don't know exactly what it looks like yet.
IR: I mean, it is a powerful idea. Thinking of money as just another form of energy—it's like, where are you actually putting that energy? What are we creating with that? So many of us are just basically giving money to tech companies, to Amazon, not to our local communities and things like that. And yeah, you have to wonder what kind of imprint that creates.
LJH: Also, I mean, it goes with all that capital. You know, when you look at the actual numbers of it, we've got $40 trillion of retail investor money that's tied up in the stock market and, in large part, into these mega corporations.
So our capital is actively working against our interests, right? And we've allowed it to be this way. And I think it's because there's nothing, broadly speaking, like a pathway that shows how to make a financial plan to build that better future, and how to invest within our local communities and our local regions.
I doesn’t even have to be local-local, right? It can just be investing in smaller initiatives across the world, because it all has a ripple effect. Everything's interconnected, right? It’s about building something that's better and not just an economy that's based on whatever the mega corporations dictate.
IR: Exactly, yeah. And I think we're seeing kind of a—well, they call it late-stage capitalism for a reason. Because the cracks are really—I mean, it was never good for a lot of people, but the cracks are really, really showing now.
LJH: Yeah, they're really, really showing. You know, there's such a disconnect where I sit there and I'll read the news about the economic outlook and things like that, and it's like, "Oh, the economy is doing great." And it's like, the economy? The economy is not a measure of how human beings are actually doing.
They're completely and totally disconnected at this point. And I think to think about the economy in terms of just numbers and growth and have it be disconnected from the quality of human life is just fundamentally flawed.
IR: And then there’s the question of, what does it mean to live a good life, actually? Like, we sort of have this idea that if we can just accumulate as much as possible, that's the end goal. But of course, that's such a trap because you never get to the point where you can accumulate enough objects.
LJH: And there's that whole accumulation and hoarding factor to it, right? That's so much of what society has programmed us to do. It's like, okay, you know, I need to save a certain dollar amount for X, Y, or Z in a future that's going to look like how my parents' retirement might have looked or my grandparents' retirement might have looked. And it's just—that's not the case anymore.
And I think so much of it is just American individualism, right? Everyone's about "me, me, me, me, me." And it's got to turn more into something where it's about "we, we, we, we," where we fail and we succeed together. This division and separateness—the idea that one person must win so others must lose—I think that's a broken and flawed way of thinking.
How this all comes into being in many bits and pieces in the 3D reality is going to be very interesting. But what gives me faith is knowing that there are so many other people with the same mindset as us, right? And they're all working in their own ways. As we're starting to see one another and collaborate, this is really going to take shape and take structure over the next few years.
IR: Yeah, I think that's one thing that can seem impossible—actually making these kinds of changes. But I think the thing is that people really are longing for a change in this respect, especially financially. We can talk about any kind of social or environmental issue, but for most people, financial issues come first because they're so connected to our day-to-day survival.
And so many people are so tired of the way things are distributed now. That just kind of is a reason, I think, that the powers that be don't want us to realize how fragile they are. That’s kind of what I keep coming back to.
LJH: Right. Well, because a lot of it, too, is that in this current moment, everything feels so disconnected in many ways. And it's like, each of us, in our own awareness, are seeing bits and pieces of it in different areas, but they don't seem to be connecting.
We're coming to a point, though… Even in this conversation, you and I are two people who've had very different paths and different approaches to this world, but we’ve largely reached the same conclusions. It's like we're starting to see one another now. As that starts to happen, and as this philosophy, if you will, becomes more mainstream, we can start to build out what this structure is.
The financial planning piece of it is going to be huge. And not just in financial planning in general, but also in financial planning for individuals—it’s about diverting that capital away from the old systems and structures and directing it to the causes that are going to build communities that are more self-sufficient.
IR: Absolutely. You mentioned you had a spiritual awakening that led you into synchronicities. And I'd love to hear, because I'm sure we could talk about that forever, but I just thought we'd love to hear a little bit more about your own journey and what led you to this. I know you mentioned you had a sort of spiritual awakening that led you to go into the realm of synchronicities and follow that thread. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about what that journey looked like for you.
LJH: I was never one to go actively seeking some sort of spiritual journey or quest or anything like that. I've always had, I feel like, a connection to something unseen—God, Source, Universe, whatever it might be. And I've always accepted it as this undercurrent that was sort of guiding and driving the powers of my life and the lives of others.
I think with my generation—I was born in 1981—we were very much indoctrinated to believe that anything to do with spirituality, and anything that exists outside of those five human senses, because it can't be scientifically proven, was to be dismissed or seen as ignorant or uneducated.
But what happened for me—how it all kind of came into light and came into being—was that I was at a point of really examining my life and my place in the world, one afternoon, and I had a spontaneous Kundalini awakening. I felt the energy rise up from the base of my spine, shoot all the way up, get into my headspace, and then come out the top of my head.
And when that happened, I saw my entire life. And it existed outside of time, space, and reality. I don't know if I was in there for minutes, hours—who knows. But I saw my entire life, everything that had ever happened to me. And then it went further back to all of the times I had been mistreated or abused or anything like that. And I saw everything that had happened to the people who had abused me and why it had been that way.
It felt like just this wave of understanding as well as forgiveness. And when I came back into myself, I couldn't go back to seeing the world the way I saw it before that event. It's very difficult, I think, still for me to explain and talk about, but it was very, very profound.
And then, with the synchronicities and things like that—through my life, even though I'm a certified financial planner, absolutely nothing has ever gone according to plan. It always seemed as though I would plan one thing, and then something very unexpected would happen that would put me on a totally different path, or timeline, what have you.
And that was what led me to say, when I stepped away from my practice, that nothing in my life has ever gone according to plan. Why on earth should it start going according to plan now? So rather than close myself off to anything, I just decided to open myself up to whatever might occur.
I don't know how to talk about any of the specific synchronicities or things that have happened, but I guess the big one was that a couple of weeks after I quit my job, I got a random Facebook ad to try out for this thing called The Great American Speak Off. It's a public speaking contest—they say they're looking for America's next great speaker and whatnot. And I said, "All right, you know what? I'm going to enter this contest," even though I'd never publicly spoken before. And it's a pretty competitive one.
I wound up auditioning and getting into the semifinals. But then that led me to a conference in Miami, which led me to meeting all of these spiritual people who were also experiencing lots of synchronicities and following along that path. It really opened my eyes to different ways of looking at things, and, I guess, a more traditional sort of spirituality that I had no clue about at all.
And then, from that event, more coincidences led me to the next one, and the next one, and the next one. And then eventually, in December, it led me to the Family Office Club, where I began learning about alternative investments and ways to divert capital to smaller businesses.
IR: Yeah, it's amazing how synchronicities can guide us where we need to go. I know we kind of met through a synchronicity—I was writing an article about natural disasters, and you messaged that you were also doing some work on your community, which was affected by Hurricane Helene. And these things just kind of—there's sort of this underlying strange thread that seems to weave through a lot of things.
LJH: That's the thing. I think that it's this invisible thread, force, web that interconnects us all. The way that I had been thinking about it the other day is that it's like we're mycelium, right? Like, we're mushrooms. Each of us as individuals is sort of one little mushroom, right? But underneath, there's this web that connects all of these supposedly separate entities. They're actually all just part of one single organism. And I don't know how, but I just believe that the coincidences and the synchronicities and things like that are somehow the 3D expression of that interconnectedness of all things.
IR: Yeah, absolutely. I definitely love the vision of a web. I sort of feel like God or spirit or whatever there is kind of would look like a web, if anything, to me. And I do think that's sort of how the universe shows its underlying order. And then, of course, we have quantum physics and things proving that there is kind of a web and one thing can affect something else—
LJH: That looks completely separate, but it's not. And so the hard part for me is knowing this stuff and then trying to take these principles and apply them to how to make a financial plan in this crazy 3D reality that we're all navigating.
And that's where I think I'm like—the sort of hang-up is, how do you express it? How do I express it? How do I do it? But it's not about a me; it's about a we. And I just think so much of it, too, is about not even in making the plan. It's in going out there and just starting to ask the questions.
IR: Yeah. Just opening, and making the connections, too. Like connecting to the other mycelium thread. I think it's an important point. For sure, we can get really lofty, and I want to talk more about the quantum world and spirituality and things.
But then there's also the question of, how do you kind of weave these ideas and this knowledge into what appears to be our actual physical reality, which isn't necessarily the real reality? I definitely feel some dissonance in my own life between what I know of how the universe works and then what is in front of me. And so I think what you're doing is important and difficult. We're kind of trying to bridge two worlds.
LJH: And what we're both doing is difficult and important. But I think we're at the forefront of it. And there's millions of us, to the best of my understanding, who have this understanding of the interconnectedness of all things. This understanding that the way society operates is fundamentally changing and that this next 20 years isn't going to look like the last 50, and it's going to shift and evolve.
I think that applying these more intangible sorts of quantum principles to this reality is what's going to make it successful. That's what's going to move us from this society of me, me, me to a more unified we, we, we. We all win together.
IR: Definitely. And we're in such a transitional point, these next 20 years. I don't think most people are aware, or it's difficult to even think about how much change is going to come with climate change and everything. And you have AI rising up and all these new developments in tech and science.
I know on your website you write a little bit about seeing this as an apocalypse, and I feel like there have been many different apocalypses through time, but this is probably the most global, at least in recent history. So, I'm curious about your thoughts about that and about what you think that might mean, and what that means to you, and what you envision happening.
LJH: Well, the way that I think about it is that yeah, there have been many, many apocalypses, and there are many ways in which the world has fundamentally changed throughout the course of human history.
So, if we think about it in the sense that it's like—you know, from the year 0 AD till about the 1800s during that time span, human knowledge doubled, right? And then between the 1800s and, like, the 1920s or so, human knowledge doubled again. And it's like, the rate of human knowledge expansion is like… I don't know how true it is, and I don't know how these things are measured, but I heard a statistic thrown out that human knowledge will double in 2025. What used to take us 2,000 years is now going to take us one year.
And how does that change, you know, like—yeah, the world that we live in? Especially when you factor in things like AI and tech and climate change and all of that.
I think a lot of our evolution is going to be instead of viewing AI… By and large, I see a lot of people who have a distrust of the robots, under the assumption that, well, what if the robots take over and this, that, and whatever? And it's like—well, that's assuming that AI has any desire for power or control. And the desire for power and control is a human emotion, that's a human desire. I think learning to hope for the best and believe in the possibilities versus manifesting negative—I don't know how to say this—negative…
IR: Like creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of fear, right?
LJH: Yeah—like, I think it's bad, then everyone thinks it's bad, so then we don't trust it, and then it winds up going off the rails or going bad. But if we treat AI as an entity without any sort of desire for power and control… I think all AI wants is efficient solutions. It doesn't have emotions. It wants efficient solutions.
The way that I try to think about this time period is it’s about learning to work with AI and letting it be more of an extension of ourselves, in order to increase our efficiency. So long as those who are using these tools are working with purity of intent—you know, and with an understanding of the mycelium and the interconnectedness of all things—it'll all come together in some sort of beautiful way that I can't even envision. I hope. And I'm not sure if I answered the question there. I tend to go on tangents.
IR: Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about sort of our apocalyptic moment, and I do think my personal conspiracy theory is that it's not a coincidence that AI is happening at the same time as climate change. Like, I think there must be something going on. Like, we've sort of reached this pinnacle of human progress at this point with these two things.
There’s also so much interesting potential with AI because it is literally connected to the internet. Like, it's connected to this mycelial, massive, almost God-like entity. So that in itself—there's something there.
LJH: Yeah, and it can deliver us the answers to our practical problems, right? And then help us to organize that information in ways that are customized to our individual situations and communities and things. I think it's just about us, you know, learning to utilize it properly. We've got the tools, right, and all of the solutions that we need are present, I believe, here in the 3D reality. And it's just about us implementing them and using them in such a way in order to bring it about, right?
IR: Yeah, totally.
LJH: But, like, as far as community-building and making a more sustainable future—yeah, AI is going to be huge for it. And with climate change too, it's just that the areas that we're going to be able to live in are going to be smaller and smaller.
EG: The question is—the Earth will survive, and AI probably will find a way to become conscious or something and will exist, and some billionaires will survive. But we really need each other to pull each other through this, I think, because that's the question of this moment—how much can we save of humans, and what can we do for our own communities especially?
You've lived through a natural disaster, and that's just going to become more and more a part of life, and it's going to require more and more community and technological efforts and financial efforts and a different way of living and organizing resources too. We won't be able to just live on our own anymore.
LJH: Right? And for me, it's really hard because the current construct of my life is like—yeah, I may have left behind my practice and things like that, but, you know, the way that I've lived is still in that sort of in a nuclear family kind of structure. Like we're an island unto ourselves without a strong sense of community around me.
And also, just being a person who has absolutely no real survival skills, like, that scares me. Like, I don't know how to grow my own food or collect my own water or, you know, make my own medicines. And I think that so much of that is what's going to be really important.
IR: To go back to some of the quantum stuff you were talking about—I know, a bit of a leap, but I feel like that's the nature of these topics… Quantum leaps. I'd love to hear a bit more about what you mean by living life as a quantum experiment. And just a little bit more about what all of that means to you.
LJH: So what it had meant to me until very recently, until my investment thesis took shape, was going in, leaving my practice, and essentially having my life be a blank slate with absolutely no attachment to outcome.
Also, when I left, I made no financial plan for myself. And I just said—really, like, honestly—threw up my hands and said, you can call it an experiment in quantum physics. Another term for it would be, you know, just—it's an exercise in faith, saying that by not attaching to outcome and letting whatever experiences or knowledge come into my awareness as Source, God, whatever intends there to be, that this is what's going to give me the purpose, and the path forward for my life in order for me to discover what is the best value that I can add back to humanity as one little mushroom on this mycelium web. Which is probably not a great way of explaining it, but quantum physics and faith in God are all one and the same. That's the simple way to say it. And by just not attaching to outcomes… At the beginning of the experiment, that was what I was called to do.
At this point in the experiment, I think I’m in phase two now, right? This is the, "Okay, you did the information gathering," if you will. And the information-gathering phase never ends. I think that constantly being able to add and integrate new knowledge and adapt one's framework and understanding of reality is very, very important too and is a huge part of this. But now, rather than saying yes to absolutely everything that comes across my path, I'm having to be a lot more discerning and focused. Which isn't fun for me. I don't like that part.
IR: But we want to, you know, live in all the possible realities.
LJH: Right, right, right. It's like, I gotta pick one timeline. I’ll hope.
IR: Yeah. Maybe we can just have faith that the other timelines are also going on.
LJH: And I think, too, that in a lot of it, we're operating on multiple timelines all at once, right? From any given moment, it can jump off into any of these other alternate possibilities.
IR: Exactly. Like, it's not fixed. That's one thing I keep going back to when I get worried about having to choose one timeline. Because I think I've been living kind of also with the uncertainty principle—of not really being sure, or just sort of following different threads instead of having a clear path. I think it does get scary, until I see other people who are kind of also doing that and then realize that is kind of the choice that I've made as opposed to having one clear, preordained path.
LJH: So yeah. And honestly, Eden, I think it's part of the design, right? It’s part of the design of this. In order to bring about the organization, the changes that are needed, and things like that, there's so much letting go of the old ways of thinking and doing things. And one of those old ways is the idea, "I have to have this clear direction and this clear-cut plan." That mode of operating is built for a world that has far more security and certainty baked into it than the reality in which we're currently living.
IR: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think it's going to take people who are sort of willing to see other pathways. That's the only way that new things are created.
LJH: Yeah, saying like, I'm just detaching from what things should be. Because what things should be—a lot of that was built with the idea that life was going to be, you know, kind of how we were raised to think it would be. Like strong middle-class America, and everyone's individual in their own families, and this, that, and whatever. And it's like—that's just not what the future is going to look like.
So I think being very fluid and being very open, and perhaps, you know, at this point, not having a huge plan, but leaving yourself open to whatever opportunities, possibilities, and new knowledge come about during this time—is the point of it. That’s how we bring it about.
IR: Absolutely. Yeah, I love that. And I think it's easy to just feel lost. But the world kind of does change shape depending on how you see things, you know, as we know. That's another quantum principle.
LJH: Oh yeah. Perception shapes reality, like, big time. And some days are easier than others for me, right? Some days, in some moments, I can look at things and say, okay, I see it all coming together in a way that is harmonious and beneficial and wonderful. And then, you know, I see some piece of news or other things that come out, and it kind of puts me into a place of despair where I'm like, "All is lost," but I can't think that way. And it doesn’t behoove me to give any of my energy or attention to those sorts of things. It’s best to focus on the brighter future.
IR: Yeah, of course. And of course, it's not easy or possible to do it all the time, but I certainly think—like I mentioned before—connection seems like a way. That was sort of the idea behind this podcast, just to return to a place where these visions are not only possible, but they're shared. And then people who are also connected to the more-than-human world too are going to be a big ally in the transformation. So yeah, I think the more we can gather people together in these beliefs, the less likely we are to give up hope.
LJH: And I think, and it's just this law of energy again, right? That as individuals, we stand here with just our own energy, feeling these things, wanting these shifts and these things. It's only banding our energy together collectively that gives it enough force to attain mass it needs to, I guess, start its little rotation around the sun, if you will—to give it its own sort of body and force and power behind it.
IR: Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's sort of the principle of everything, I think. If you imagine everything was once all just one, everything came into being by fracturing into two and continuing to grow. And in that way, so the world seems sort of based on the idea of yeah, we're separate, but we are also in each other. So I definitely think we need connection for sure.
I'd love to hear a little more about your vision for some of these new realities that are branching out. What kind of realities do you want to see come into being?
LJH: So some realities that I would like to see—you know, it goes in phases. I think the first one that I can envision, the one that I see at first, is rather than our lives being dictated by so many global forces, things become much more local. Local economies having more of an influence on the security and quality of life than these larger global or macro sorts of economies. And how these will go is they're going to be so dependent on the individual conditions within each of these regions, if you will. One thing that I think is going to become very much more important in an area of focus is becoming more food independent in our local communities.
Eden, what about you? What do you, what do you see and think too? I'm curious about all of that.
IR: Yeah, certainly more connection to nature and working, living with the land. I completely agree with what you're saying about getting closer to less extractivist ways of living in a lot of ways, less ego-driven, just constant "every man for himself" ways of life. I think we probably share that vision.
More room for people to create, less people having to do meaningless jobs. More room for people who are creating generative work and less scarcity. There doesn't have to be so much scarcity. People shouldn't have to always be on the edge of losing their houses if they... People can create beautiful things. I think it's such a fallacy to say that people are going to stop working if they don't have to. And if they did, I just think very few people—like, people would live in such a different way if we didn't have such a level of scarcity that is so prevalent among almost everybody that I know. And even the wealthiest people I know too. Everybody is operating on this scarcity mindset and I just think I'd love to see a change in that. So there's a lot, but those are just some things that come to mind and are inspired by what you've been speaking about as well.
LJH: Yeah, I think. But the scarcity thing and that—I'm glad that you brought that up because scarcity is an illusion. Right? Realistically, we actually have enough resources for everybody. Right? It's that so many of the resources are being hoarded by the few. And also that for us, the many, our local communities and stuff don't have the systems and structures to even be able to efficiently use the resources that could be within our own influence.
And I think it's just about being able to create that. We've got to create parallel structures, outside of the structure of mainstream American capitalist society. And maybe it becomes something… And also its about how we think about work. Like, it's like everyone thinks about work as—oh, you go to a job in order to collect money. Like, you know, it's just an expression of that energy exchange, if you will.
And there's so many other ways to do work that's not necessarily valued by money. I think most of the work that I've done in my life has had absolutely nothing to do with the earning of currency.
I'm really excited to see, like, you know, what happens with your podcast and all of the other, like, great people that, you know, you bring together. Like, I see it becoming a mastermind, if you will. Right? Like, right now you're pulling together these different people with different ideas—like, we've all got the same thoughts, but sort of different levels or different areas of implementation.
IR: Yeah. And there's so many, so many people doing this type of work. That's what I'm constantly reminded of when I am able to get out of my own little pessimistic mind sometimes. There are so many people with these shared visions. They're not the people that are running the government and things like that, but there are a lot of people who are really compassionate.
I think just like, I'd love to see people suffering a little bit less. At the end of the day, and I don't think it would only come from everybody having resources because there's also a more spiritual, deeper level that's not connected to that too.
LJH: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Right. And, like, and it's like, how did things come to this point? It's like, because the programming has really taught people to ignore their spiritual and emotional health.
IR: Yeah.
LJH: Like everything is all about, you know, sort of like that, that 3D definition of what it means to be a functioning successful human being, and that completely ignores either the spiritual or emotional side of it all. And we are primarily spiritual beings, not physical beings.
IR: Yeah. So I think it's also like—the redistribution of resources is part of it. And then there's also another level; I think people are very devoid of spiritual meaning. And spirituality gets so commodified or whatever else. And there's no one answer. I certainly don't know the answer to what would make people suffer a bit less. But I think, yeah, that... That seems to be the best thing to hope for.
LJH: Yeah.
IR: In this world, where things really are so difficult for, like, life kind of is just a lot of suffering. I think we can help each other through it, is what I go back to.
LJH: Great. Yeah.
IR: And, yeah, I mean, visions like yours are so, so important. I definitely would encourage you to… I really see a lot of power in what you're doing.
LJH: Oh, thank you. For me, it's like, I've got to learn to articulate it. A hard thing for me has been since leaving my practice—I used to be very, very good at articulating, my thoughts and my ideas and putting it forth in a way that's very easy, I think, for my listener to understand. And now I've spent so much time up in my own head that it comes out very, very jumbled. So like, I thank you for having me on here and just giving me an opportunity to even start talking.
IR: Yeah, of course. I mean, I think the seeds of the idea are there. It's a very cool way of threading spirituality with the financial. The reality is that wealthy people are also becoming more interested in spirituality—ayahuasca and whatever else. And they're going to be looking for stuff like this too.
LJH: I mean, yeah, and they absolutely are. So it's kind of interesting with the wealthier people. There's some that I've met that are, you know, extremely awakened. Like, very, very awakened. But then they've still got the wealth and there is no framework of necessarily how to disseminate it or how to make all this work.
IR: Yeah, I mean, there's the idea and then there's putting it into practice. But yeah, I think there's a lot of potential and power in that idea. And people are always drawn to things like reducing money blocks or things like that. So that's always the way to start, you know—seeing money just as energy, and just as a way of creating things in the world.
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